These two tape transcripts are the "evidence" used by the bogus gurus to fool their Godbrothers into thinking that they had been appointed gurus. This first version of the "appointment" tape is the one that appeared in both Ramesvara's book (Appendix 2), and Jadurani's 1980 expose of the "gurus" caned The Bona Fide Spiritual Master and the Disciple. Therefore, this version is the only one to date that has been widely circulated. Since this version can easily be misinterpreted to sound like an appointment of "gurus," we can safely say that this transcript was made by the conspirators. We can only assume that Jadurani never had a copy of the actual tape. Because she quoted the bogus transcript in her book, most devotees reading it thought it to be a bona fide transcript.


Sat: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

SP: Yes. I shall recommend some of you, after this is settled up. I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya.

Tam: Is that called ritvik-acarya?

SP: Ritvik. Yes.

Sat: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and...?

SP: He's guru. He's guru.

Sat: But he does it on your behalf?

SP: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru haya, he is actually guru. But by my order.

Sat: So they may also be considered your disciples?

SP: Yes, they are or their disciples, but consider who...

Tam: No. he is asking that these ritvik-acaryas, they are officiating, giving diksa, the people who they give diksa to, whose disciples are they?

SP: They are his disciples.

Tam: They are his disciples?

SP: Who is initiating. His grand-disciple.

Sat: Then we have a question concerning...

SP: When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciples. Just see.


This version we have compiled is perfectly accurate in all detail-pauses, unclear words, etc. If the GBC has a version that is more clear, and can be heard better, then let them come forward with it now. Otherwise, when we say a segment of words is indistinguishable, that means that not only ourselves but numerous other devotees also could not make out what was being said. We have an excellent copy of the tape and are using the best equipment available.

Sat: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

SP: Yes. I shall recommend some of you, after this is settled up (local business that they had been discussing), I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya.

Note: Here Prabhupada establishes that the following conversation is going to be about officiating gurus before his departure, not about gurus "at that time when he is no longer with us."

Tam: Is that called ritvik-acarya?

SP: Ritvik. Yes.

Sat: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and-

Note: This is a meaningless question, and so Prabhupada didn't even wait for him to finish it. He "who gives" is guru-Srila Prabhupada. Satsvarupa was no doubt thinking of he who "officiates" the initiation but his wording was off. The ritvik does not "give" the initiation; he officiates the initiation. Satsvarupa's question is not clear, and so the answer cannot be confirmed to support any conclusion.

SP: -He's guru- He's guru.

Note: The first "He's guru" broke into Satsvarupa's words, and so Prabhupada repeated it. That's the only reason. Srila Prabhupada is simply stating his own relationship to his disciple; the one "who gives" the initiation is guru. It is possible that he was referring to the ritvik as being guru, but in that case it would mean siksa-guru. In many places Prabhupada said that his senior disciples may be taken as siksa-guru of the neophytes if they repeated perfectly what they have heard. Guru simply means teacher in this sense.

Sat: But-he does it on your behalf?

Note: Here Satsvarupa introduces the delusion. In his mind he interpreted the answer as meaning the ritvik is the initiating guru.

SP: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru. So on my behalf. On my order, "amara ajnaya guru haya." (3 sec. pause) He's actually guru, but by my order.

Note: This is the most important answer. In fact it is so significant that at the end of this Appendix we quote the entire section in Caitanya-caritamrta where this quote comes from. Srila Prabhupada is being questioned as to what will be the system of guru after his departure. To this line of questioning Prabhupada quotes a verse from the Caitanya-caritamrta. that elaborately explains how me is "actually a guru." Prabhupada is not going to recite the whole section for Satsvarupa right then and there. Satsvarupa knows how to read and so Prabhupada simply gave him the key words. Thus all Satsvarupa had to do was look it up. Prabhupada's intentions for guru after his departure are very clear. Anyone who can read can see who Prabhupada was appointing guru.

Sat: So they may also be considered your disciples?

Note: Here Satsvarupa further reveals the delusion he is in. He has now fully convinced himself that the new devotees are actually his own disciples.

SP:...(words)...they're disciples, but consider. (2 sec. pause) Who.

Note: Any interpretation of this partial statement is simply mental speculation. It is significant however that Prabhupada made this response in a tone of chastisement, as though he wanted Satsvarupa to give up his delusion. Tamala could see the confusion and so he interjected:

Tam: No. He is asking that these ritvik-acaryas... (Prabhupada: Hmmm)...they are officiating, giving diksa,...(hmmm)...the people who they give diksa to...(hmmm)...whose disciple are they?

Note: We have to give Tamala credit here for picking up that Satsvarupa is in delusion. Satsvarupa's questions were not at all in line with Prabhupada's answers and so Tamala wants to make it perfectly clear. Tamale's wording is very concise. It is also significant that three times during this question Prabhupada said, "Hmmm". Prabhupada was speaking very clearly at this time, and so there is no reason for any of this tape to be ambiguous-unless it was tampered with.

SP: They are (d)-his-disciples.

Note: just before the word "his" there is an unmistakable dip in sound. There can be no doubt that the word "his" was dubbed in; most likely in place of the word "my." Why would Prabhupada say "his" disciples to a clear question like Tamala's? Even if there were no dip, we would know that it was dubbed simply on the philosophical basis, but with the dip, there is no doubt. Who did the dubbing??

Tam: They are his disciples.

Note: This response confirms the dub. From the original bogus transcript, everyone thought Tamala was repeating what Prabhupada said. But that was an easy trick they thought they could get away with. This was not spoken as a question to Prabhupada as the bogus transcript led one to believe. This was immediately and softly spoken on the side to Satsvarupa simply confirming that the new devotees were Prabhupada's disciples. Had Prabhupada actually said "his disciples," then Tamala would have said to Satsvarupa, "They are our disciples." One word dubs are relatively easy but even then they couldn't make it perfect. Tamala is talking to Satsvarupa, so, when he says, "his disciples," Prabhupada is "his".

SP: Who is initiating. (3 sec. pause) His grand-disciple.

Sat: Yes. (5 sec. pause) Then we have a question conc-.

Note: Please keep in mind, Tamala had just told Satsvarupa that the new devotees were Prabhupada's disciples. That was very clear at this time. So even though these last words cannot be interpreted (cuts may have been made), Satsvarupa had heard all he wanted to and so is going on to the next question. Some tampering may have been done on all these sentences. Why would Satsvarupa have gone onto the next point? This last statement could not have made sense to him. Further questions would have been necessary. At least we could expect that Tamala would have been in there clarifying the statement further if there was even the slightest hint that he was going to be a guru. The whole conversation has very unnatural sound to it and so we know it was heavily tampered with. But as yet we have not found out who did it. But we win.

SP: When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That's all.

Note: The GBC tried to interpret the following June tape as that "order" mentioned here as though Prabhupada had all of a sudden changed the whole philosophy and decided that pure devotees can be appointed after all. It is significant that Prabhupada uses the term "regular guru." As of yet we have not found an exact definition for that term from the books. It can be taken as a guru under regulations or as an ordinary guru which would mean siksa-guru. It can't possibly mean a diksa-guru since diksa-gurus are not appointed or ordered.

It is significant that all these answers are to Tamale's question-the first clear question. But the answers in this chopped up tape do not confirm any conclusion and so more in needed. So even though Prabhupada said, "that's all", they needed to add the following sentence to clinch the appointment theory.

SP: (7 sec. delay) He becomes...(inaudible word(s))...disciple of my disciple. (Click) just see.

Note: This fine is an obvious dub. Not only does the background noise drop out, but the speed and tone of Prabhupada's voice dramatically changes also. The "just see" is again in a radically different tone and volume from the previous words. This tape was the only "evidence" the "gurus" ever had to support their claim to divinity. This can be proven, and when it is, the conspirators will be facing serious charges in court.

Sat: Next we have a question about the GBC. (end tape)

Note: There are some very significant points to bring out about this tape. One is that Prabhupada's health and speech were not bad at this time and it would have been no problem to ask more specific questions to seek proper clarification. There are so many good reasons why it is obvious that this tape was tampered with. One is, if it was not tampered with, why was it not available to everyone? It was extremely well guarded. This would have been just the opposite if it actually said what they claimed. But because they were unable to make a good dubbing job, they kept it super-confidential. It is available however from DAS if anyone doubts the validity of this transcript. When Sridhar Maharaja told Jayapataka that a ritvik guru does not make one an initiating guru later, Jayapataka told Sridhar Maharaja, referring to this tape: "Prabhupada has given explicit desires." Sridhar Maharaja believed him, and from the conversation that immediately ensued, the entire bogus guru manifesto was compiled.


Tam: Srila Prabhupada, we are receiving a number of letters now. People are wanting to get initiated. So, up until now, since you were becoming ill, we asked them to wait.

SP: The local senior sannyasis can.

Tam: That's what we were doing formerly. The local GBC sannyasis were chanting on their beads and they were writing to Your Divine Grace. And you were giving a spiritual name. So should that process be resumed or should we...(There is an interlude where Tamala discusses the spiritual master taking the disciple's karma). That's why we've been asking everybody to wait. I just want to know if we should continue to wait some more time.

SP: No. Senior sannyasis.

Tam: So they should continue to...

SP: You can bring me a list of sannyasis, I will mark. You can do, Kirtanananda can do...(word?) Satsvarupa can do. So (pause) these three can do.

Tam: So supposing someone is in America. Should they simply write directly to Kirtanananda or Satsvarupa.

SP: Nearby. Jayatirtha can do.

Tam: Jayatirtha.

SP: (word?)...Bhagavan can do.

Tam: Bhagavan.

SP: And he can do also (pause). Harikesh.

Tam: Harikesh Maharaja.

SP: Five, six men divide. Who is nearest.

Tam: Who is nearest. So persons wouldn't have to write to Your Divine Grace. They could write directly to that person.

SP: (hmmm)

Tam: Actually, they are initiating the person on Your Divine Grace's behalf.

SP: Hmmm.

Tam: Those persons who are initiated are still your-.

SP: Second initiation. We shall think. Second.

Tam: This is for first initiation. Okay. And for second initiation, for the time being we should-.

SP: Again have to wait. Second initiation, that should be...

Tam: Some devotees are writing you now for second initiation. And I'm writing them to wait a while, because you are not well. So can I continue to tell them that?

SP: They can do second initiation.

Tam: By writing you?

SP: No. These men.

Tam: These men. They can also do second initiation. So there's no need for devotees to write to you for first and second initiation. They can write to the man nearest them. But all these persons are still your disciples. Anybody who would give initiation is doing so on your behalf.

SP: Yes.

Tam: You know that book I'm maintaining of all your disciples' names? Should I continue that?

SP: Hmmm.

Tam: So if someone gives initiation, like Harikesh Maharaja, he should send the person's name to us here, and I'll enter it in the book. (Long pause) Is there someone else in India that you want to do this.

SP: India I am here we shall see. In India-Jayapataka.

Tam: Jayapataka Maharaja.

SP: You are also in India. (Long pause) You can note down these names.

Tam: Yes, I have them. (The list is read, and Srila Prabhupada adds two more names-Hrdayananda and Ramesvara.

SP: (Long pause) So without waiting for me, whoever you consider deserves. That will depend on discretion.

Tam: On discretion.

SP: Yes.

Tam: That's for first and second initiations?

SP: Hmmm.

NOTE: One very obvious question: If it were clear from the May tape that the new initiates would be the disciples of the ritviks, then why was none of this mentioned in this June tape? Why was Tamala still trying to get Prabhupada to say something else? The answer is obvious. They hadn't yet conceived their plot and dubbed the May tape. There is no mention in this tape of the ritviks becoming anything special after Srila Prabhupada's departure. As such there is no question of construing an appointment of gurus from these two transcripts. But since the May tape was tampered with, not only is it not valid evidence, but it is conclusive evidence as to the demoniac nature of the "gurus"-just the opposite of the divine nature they claimed the tape represented.

Another significant point is that Bhavananda and Hansadutta were not named in this June tape. Their names appeared on the letter issued to all centers that Prabhupada signed, but they were not named in this tape. No doubt some "good reasons" were given to Prabhupada later on to include them even though Bhavananda had only a year previously been caught by Pippilai dasa pants down, having sex with a Bengali boy in Mayapur. Just months previously, Prabhupada had said that Hansadutta was "praying daily that I die so that he can become guru." Prabhupada was aware of the character of all these ritviks. Ritvik has no special authority whatsoever. He simply gives initiation on the guru's behalf. Otherwise why would Prabhupada say, "whoever is nearest." The common argument, introduced by Sridhar Maharaja is that, "Well, it only makes sense that if Prabhupada made them ritviks, they must be the most advanced devotees." Sridhar may have even been the first to introduce that idea even though two years previously Sridhar had said that ritvik implied no special position.

Aside from all that, Tamala Krsna has directly confessed (on tape) in the Pyramid House Talks, Dec. 3, 1980 that, "Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn't appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus."

The "gurus" placed a great deal of importance on this tape to substantiate their claims, but the fact is that this tape, at least in its present condition, is the least authoritative explanation of guru. But Prabhupada, seeing past, present, and future, knew that this tape would be used to exploit the devotees. And so within this tape he planted one very important line that gives us the all-important clue as to what is the authoritative explanation on the subject of guru after his departure. He gave that clue by quoting "amara ajnaya guru hana." Nowhere does Srila Prabhupada say that a bona fide guru, a guru who actually sees Krsna face to face, can be appointed. The statement, "He's actually guru, but by my order," simply means that everyone is ordered to become guru by repeating what Prabhupada has taught us. It is not necessary to wait to see Krsna face to face to become guru and preach. Everyone should preach immediately by repeating what Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya have spoken. That is the meaning of "amara ajnaya guru hana" as explained below by Prabhupada. Everyone must preach from whatever level of realization he is on. But that kind of guru, and the actual liberated guru, are two different things. One is called diksa, and the other is called siksa. Anyone who repeats the message purely can become siksa-guru immediately. One's wife, one's mother, a prostitute, a beggar, a Godbrother, etc. Everyone is ordered to become guru in that sense. It is not possible to be ordered to become a pure devotee. The bona fide diksa-guru must be a pure devotee that is actually liberated. That is the conclusion of all of Srila Prabhupada's instructions on these two types of gurus. This May tape does not in any way contradict those instructions.

Srila Prabhupada's quoting the verse from Caitanya-caritamrta, "amara ajnaya guru hana" (Cc. Mad. 7.128) is so significant we are herein quoting the entire section from the Caitanya-caritamrta. We strongly suggest that the devotees read it carefully. It fully substantiates the conclusions in given in Chapter Nine.

"The brahmana (Kurma) begged Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, "My dear Lord, kindly show me favor and let me go with You. I can no longer tolerate the waves of misery caused by materialistic life. (Cc. Mad. 7.126)

"Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "Don't speak like that again. Better to remain at home and chant the holy name of Krsna always." (Cc. Mad. 7.127)

Purport by Prabhupada: "It is not advisable in this age of Kali to leave one's family suddenly, for people are not trained as proper brahmacaris and grhasthas. Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised the brahmana not to be too eager to give up family life. It would be better to remain with his family and try to become purified by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra regularly under the direction of a spiritual master. This is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. If this principle is followed by everyone, there is no need to accept sannyasa. In the next verse Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu advises everyone to become an ideal householder by offenselessly chanting the Hare Krsna mantra and teaching the same principle to everyone he meets."

"Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krsna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in the land." (Cc. Mad. 7.128)

Purport by Prabhupada: "This is the sublime mission of ISKCON. Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra.... If one is a little literate and can read Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is so much the better. These works are now available in an English translation and are done very authoritatively to appeal to all classes of men. Instead of living engrossed in material activities, people throughout the world should take advantage of this movement and chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra at home with their families. One should also refrain from sinful activities-illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. Out of these four items, illicit sex is very sinful. Every person must get married. Every woman especially must get married. If the women outnumber the men, some men can accept more than one wife. In that way there will be no prostitution in society. If men can marry more than one wife, illicit sex life will be stopped.... The Krsna consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His advice to the brahmana Kurma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krsna mantra and preach the instructions of Krsna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam."

"Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu further advised the brahmana Kurma, "If you follow this instruction, your materialistic life at home will not obstruct your spiritual advancement. Indeed, if you follow these regulative principles, we will again meet here, or, rather, you will never lose My company." (Cc. Mad. 7.129)

Purport by Prabhupada: "This is an opportunity for everyone. If one simply follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, under the guidance of His representative, and chants the Hare Krsna mantra, teaching everyone as far as possible the same principle, the contamination of the materialistic way of life will not even touch him. It does not matter whether one lives in a holy place like Vrndavana, Navadwipa or Jagannatha Puri or in the midst of European cities where the materialistic way of life is very prominent. If a devotee follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he lives in the company of the Lord. Wherever he lives, he converts that place into Vrndavana and Navadvipa. This means that materialism cannot touch him. This is the secret of success for one advancing in Krsna consciousness.

"At whosoever's house Sri Caitanya accepted His alms by taking prasada, He would convert the dwellers to His sankirtana movement and advise them just as He advised the brahmana named Kurma. (Cc. Mad. 7.130)

Purport by Prabhupada: "The cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is explained here very nicely. One who surrenders to Him and is ready to follow Him with heart and soul does not need to change his location. Nor is it necessary for one to change status. One may remain a householder, a medical practitioner, an engineer, or whatever. It doesn't matter. One only has to follow the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra and instruct relatives and friends in the teachings of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. One has to learn humility and meekness at home following the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and in that way one's life will be spiritually successful. One should not try to be an artificially advanced devotee thinking, 'I am a first-class devotee.' Such thinking should be avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples. One has to become purified at home by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra and preaching the principles and be freed from the contamination of material life.... To protect his preachers, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given much clear advice in these verses of Caitanya-caritamrta.

Need more than this be said on the status of ISKCON's self-appointed gurus? Comments, inquiries, and donations toward this book may be sent to Steve Bryant (Sulocana dasa), 2124 Kittredge #32, Berkeley, CA, 94704. Thank you.